Named after Lockheed-Martin's famous "Skunk Works" R-and-D operation, we skunklings gather here to toss out lots and lots of crazy-but-specific ideas concerning how followers of Jesus can better represent him in and to our world. This is NOT a "discussion" forum; we're not evaluating ideas, we're generating them. Comments longer than 112 words will generally be excoriated, unless absolutely and unmistakably brilliant.
First area: describe a way in which it could be demonstrated to a group of secular 20-somethings that following Jesus can be genuinely "spiritual" and not "religious."
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Present Jesus as the greatest Spiritual Master of all time.
ReplyDeleteAsk them if they know that Jesus is not a Christian.
Jesus got jumped by church people?
ReplyDeleteJesus's mom was a single parent? (at least at some point).
ReplyDeleteBrain, are we talking about seekers or skeptics?
ReplyDeleteLet's close our eyes, sit here quietly and ask him to make himself known.
ReplyDeleteHave them over for hotdogs and hamburgers the first week, subs the second and have a potluck on the third, fourth and fifth and the conversations will go right where you want them. Jesus and food is a great combination!
ReplyDeleteAwesome Bret ... I agree. Here is another idea - make sure to have one's own life in order, actively demonstrating the love of God, and let them "SEE" Jesus in reflected in you. I'll give examples later.
ReplyDeleteok -- testing now. It should be much easier to post!
ReplyDeleteAlready in action in Dennis Cole's church: a group sent out to tailgate on Sundays at Bengal's games in order to build relationships and bring good news to the tailgating community.
ReplyDeleteThose little skunks at the top are cute... it's a shame that the smell so bad...
ReplyDeleteI was talking to Carlos about this just now. His answer was for us to first enter into their world (with their permission) on their terms with no agenda -- and then simply avoid being religious while being spiritual. They see Jesus by seeing us.
ReplyDeleteThanks for "decorating" the site, Joseph. Remember, our goal is generating ideas; we might have to generate 256 to find the "one."
ReplyDeleteI hate for 2 or 3 of us to keep posting them: but here is another idea that I am curerntly doing: Find a new, emerging band and begin to follow them. Go to all their concerts, all of the parties and hang out with them individually. Be spiritual but not religious.
ReplyDeleteHow many of you have listened to the new U2 "No Line on the Horizon" CD or read "Coversations with Bono" by Michka Assayas? Bono is the man most admired in the world by people under 30 (or was before Barack Obama emerged). Become conversant in that language. Personally, I love Carlos's idea and also the tailgating idea. I'm doing both. Food is always involved.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest things I would say is #1 don't invite people obviously not interested to go to church. You can't say, "hey Jesus is spiritual, now come to our Sunday morning meeting."
ReplyDelete#2 The first step to being seen as non-threatening is to not look religious, I might take it to the extreme at times, but smoking cigarettes and cussing frequently, as well as occasional jokes at the churches expense make me seem like a really fun guy to hang out with. =O)
ReplyDeleteLastly for this morning I think we should come up with a sign that we can all tattoo on our bodies representing the spiritual and loving nature of Jesus.
ReplyDeleteHow about asking Dow, who's been remarkably effective with that demographic? He exhibits a holiness that's winsome and attractive, and yet deeply confrontational to those that draw in.
ReplyDeleteI could say more but I fear excoriation ...
Bleary, by my count, you have at least another 60 or 70 words to use--go for it!
ReplyDeleteDon't mean to discuss, but I would say that it's easier for "Christian" youngins to connect with him, I have a hard time seeing worldly young people connecting with him in a serious way. On the opposite end, I can connect with worldly young people great, but I'm not much of a Christ-like example =OP
ReplyDeleteHow about writing the next novel that speaks to this generation... or the next movie? 'Member, we're dreaming here!
ReplyDeleteJust watched the you tube clip of U2 performing "Magnificent" on Letterman. Pretty cool. It appears that Bono is worshipping.
ReplyDeleteSome of us are discussing the "Did You Know 3.0" you tube clip on the other blog. You can watch and enter the discussion at the Covenant Thinklings blog. (Tried to pt the link and it won't let me post it.)
ReplyDeleteOK, here's the idea that could go viral... We could create a "Did You Know?" spin-off that would communicate God-truth.
It could be formatted several ways: 1. Present a review of the influence and activities of Christianity in the world, historically and up to the present. Don't white wash it. Objectively present the good and the bad. After that, say, "Did you know that Jesus was not a Christian?" Then present a few provocative truths about who Jesus is apart from the human institutions that have been created around him.
2. Or we could simply begin with the the second part, without the historical context. I think I like the first format better, but comments would be appreciated, and more format suggestions. Someone else may come up with a way better way to do it. But You Tube is a great free format that can definitely send something viral. Much of the "Christian" conten on there now is either cheesy, embarrasing, damaging, or just incomprehensible to the demohgraphic we're talking about reaching. A Did You Know? link, if presented properly could potentially go mainstream and escape the Christian ghetto. I've probably exceeded my word limit, Brian. Don't hesitate to edit, but PLEASE don't excoriate me!
Good idea John.
ReplyDeleteBrian: our dear brother John just went 124 words over your 112 word limit (not sure why you picked 112). We are now awaiting a Yankee-style coriation while a slow drum beat commences.
I had an idea while walking this morning -- processing ...
what about full-time pastors getting part-time (10 to 15 hours per week) jobs as bar-tenders with the explicit purpose of loving people, seving them and listening to them?
ReplyDelete"Comments longer than 112 words will generally be excoriated, unless absolutely and unmistakably brilliant."
ReplyDeleteAlthough we haven't heard yet whether Brian will honor my plea for mercy, perhaps he will find my post in the "absolutely and unmistakably brilliant" category. Brian we await your decision...
Just get genuinely interested in them and where they are in their journey. Affirm the image of God in them...the rest will follow.
ReplyDeleteI agree Robert ... there is also the issue of making sufficient time. Many people are so busy they could not entertain the idea of pausing in a starbucks to talk to someone.
ReplyDeleteBrian I like your idea of making the next movie or book that connects with young people, I would say that a good example of that might be the movie Garden State which if you haven't watched you should. It's an indy film that young people love and it has a decent message. If someone was able to do the same thing with a God oriented message it would make a big impact.
ReplyDeleteJohn M, clemency is hereby granted--don't let it go to your head! Seriously, good thoughts, everyone--thanks. Remember, we're trying to get out of discuss/analyze mode and into dreaming/brainstorming/hearingfromGod mode...might have to churn through several hundred good ideas before the God idea gets clear, so keep 'em coming.
ReplyDeleteJohn, my thumbs also up on Garden State (the movie)--seen "Lars and the Real Girl"?
Thanks Brian. Whew! I was worried...
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone think my idea is worth implementing? It would take a lot of work and some skills that I don't posses, although I could help with the research.
spend lots of time with them in their world, and only initiate what the Holy Spirit initiates.
ReplyDeleteJohn cool idea but I'm not feeling it personally. I think it would probably come off the wrong way. Ever seen a movie in which the mom tries to be "Cool" so she can relate to her daughter? That's what your idea feels like to me O.o but I could be offbase. Brian I haven't seen Lars and the Real Girl.
ReplyDeleteAlso building a poolhall/bar with live music would be awesome.
Thanks John. Good feedback. What's that movie where the Mom and the daughter end up in each other's body or something like that. I think it was a "tween" movie -- that's why I've seen it and you probably haven't. lol
ReplyDeleteJoseph, what comment were you responding to?
Stay on point, lads! More ideas, less conversation!
ReplyDeleteI'm no artist or author, but I know there's no substitute for the ongoing holy encounter that leaves the person struggling to express it. Technique, while useful or even vital, will never replace it.
ReplyDeleteGeorge MacDonald: Not a great author, but he had a vision. Try "Diary of an Old Soul" or "Lilith".
Elliot, Auden, Chesterton. Lots of other examples ...
Movies: anyone like "Facing the Giants"? 5 star rating at christiancinema.com. How about "The Painted Veil" (based on book by Maugham)? Which do you think expresses the kingdom better?
ReplyDeleteGeneral questions: what are the critical criteria for literature/art that place it in step with Jesus' message? Do these criteria vary by age (of the reader/viewer/listener) or by culture?
Can an R-rated movie portray the Kingdom?
ReplyDeleteIn order to extend Kingdoma influence, writers and producers need to write and create books and movies that people without a clue about God, Jesus or His Kingdom will be interested in and attracted to.
Most authors/producers write with the "choir" in mind, hoping that it the product might cross-over or somehow get out of the box.
My idea: Turn it around. If it crosses over to the Church, fine, but that's not your real audience. If most church people are offended by it and think it's not appropraite, you're probably honing in on your target audience.
I had an experience recently where I had to make a decision (yet again) about smoking weed. When the time came I turned it down but spent time with the guys who offered it to me and had a blast. About a week later I was somewhat reluctantly invited over to an acquaintance's house where several people were going to be smoking. I was torn internally at first knowing that it might not be wise to bring temptation on myself, but I finally decided to go and just smoke my cigarettes.
ReplyDeleteThe hang out lasted maybe 2 hours and during that time I had the distinct impression that these friends became comfortable with my presence even though I wasn't smoking. By the end of the hang out I felt that I had reached a deeper level of trust with these guys.
The only reason I mention this is that though there was some temptation involved, I put down my foot and made it clear that I wasn't going to smoke, but I also made it clear that I was going to hang out and have fun, rather then dragging me down as I feared it might, I actually got the impression that it lifted everyone else up, or at the very least lifted me up. I'm still struggling to draw creative understanding from this experience, but I think there's quite a bit to be said for having a strong base of values that a person shouldn't preach but rather act out. (Yes I know, too long... sorry!)
Great job John. I agree with your conclusions. And you drew a line without alienating your friends. A tricky thing that most people fumble, and then lose their network of non-believing friends.
ReplyDeleteThanks, John, and John!
ReplyDeleteJohn H...thanks for the example of being in "it" but not of "it"...I choose to believe that they noticed in a good way.
ReplyDeleteThanks guys. Another idea is we can start a band =OP John M can play guitar Brian maybe the drums? Dad can play the electric mandolin lol.
ReplyDeleteJohn, and you play bass?! lol is right. That's a worse idea than my youtube one! :) Hey it did spark another "band" idea. What about the band you guys went to see Thurs.?
ReplyDeleteAnybody familiar with the chapter in Don Miller's book "Blue Like Jazz" where the small group of believers on their ultra-liberal college campus set up a "Forgiveness Tent" during the school-sanctioned drugs-and-sex festival? The point was not that people would come asking for forgiveness (although that was OK), but that when people did come, the Christians would ask THEIR forgiveness for all the ways in which Christians have failed to faithfully represent Christ to them. Perhaps a "forgiveness tent" movement? (Half-kidding... maybe a quarter-... no, wait, maybe two-thirds kidding...)
ReplyDeleteyes, Brian, I love that chapter. It was powerful. Talk about turning things on their head!
ReplyDeleteGoing back to the kingdom values in an "R" rated movie ... if you get a chance, rent "Blacksnake moan" it is exactly that.
What about starting a pub? or a coffeehouse venue with live music, etc. Call it the 'watering hole' or "Smokin Joe's Bar and Grill" or something.
PS: I am VERY proud of johnthemusician ... he da MAN... I also appreciate how he hangs in here in our conversations with us.
ReplyDeleteHello gents,
ReplyDeleteI’ve been following along and it seems to me that we all pointed in the right direction with good intentions.
Here is where I am. If you are looking for movies that try to capture the teen or youth spirit then the list goes on and on of movies that are pure crap and others that are more focused on content than spectacle or a good balance of both.
Here is my list of movies you should watch:
Juno
Thirteen
Twilight
Breakfast Club
Crash
Son of Rambow
Black Diamond
Garden State
An Unfinished Life
Black Snack Moan
Traffic
Children of Men
Slumdog Millionaire
Bruce Almighty
Even Almighty
And this is my short list.
These are movies that deal with heavy themes that affect youth and adult alike. In my opinion its not about the method or spectacle but the content and substance you are trying to portray. If the themes are portrayed through content in an educated and genuine fashion then we have done our part in this somewhat obsession to reach the youth. The one thing I have learned in all my years in “trying to reach the youths” is they can smell a fake a mile away. That does not mean we shouldn’t try but remember it takes a while to rebuild broken and new bridges. So don’t lose heart.
Guys let’s be honest we are not all called to be in the trenches or the front lines but there are other positions that need filling too. Like prayer, Financial, and other resources that help move the mission forward. I personally have enough stories in development to keep me busy for the next 10 years. What I need are the resources to get them through the different production phases.
Lastly, I heard Dr Sam Lopez once say that until we get our inner artist whole and freed by the Creator that the art we are creating will not reach its true potential.
It’s always about the content, if we are broken or a part of us is not right then the art we create is only half as good.
Thanks, Carlos--great contribution! And I've actually seen 5 on your movie list!
ReplyDeleteI'm on the run just now, so wanted to acknowledge Carlos' post, and also say I want to read through it more carefully before responding.
ReplyDeleteI just had yet another interesting experience in the life of John. I've met around 5-6 peeps this semester in two different classes and I started relating to one on a deeper level. I found that being connected with one other person in a class enables me to invite others into our relationship (even though our relationship isn't anything more then mutual interest over a semester) Yesterday I asked a girl in our class if she would be interested in joining me and my friend for a beer and she said, "YES absolutely!"
ReplyDeleteI was able to draw two points from the experience: 1) As I said earlier by connecting with one other person in a group, you are enabled to invite others into the relationship that you start with the one, and 2) young people are really lonely and looking for friendship anywhere they can get it, if you simply offer an opportunity without an agenda they'll will answer with an enthusiastic "YES!"
yup ... good point. Here is another thing I am learning ... it is most effective to respond to the initiative of others (which is hard for me--I tend to want to be the initiator).
ReplyDeleteLately I have found when i try to organize stuff, not many people show up, if any. But if I go to stuff they are organizing, there is lots of grace. John and I did this last night with some of our friends.
Hey Carlos, good post. Can't claim as many watched movies on your list as Brian, but I have read reviews and am familiar with a few of them.
ReplyDeleteVicki and I just watched Slum Dog Millianare last night. What heavy theme(s) do you see affecting youth in that movie?
Maybe you could do a post on the other blog, analyzing the common themes you see in your list of movies and any particular themes you see in indiviual titles.
I wouild really be interesting in your perspective and insights.
Hey John, good suggestion! Actually, Carloozian already posted a review about Slumdog on his own blog:
ReplyDeletehttp://filmtrace.blogspot.com/2009/04/slimdoggie-millionaire-slumdog.html
and another believer, a friend of a friend of Dan Crute, also posted something on Slumdog
http://filmtangents.blogspot.com/
jh
Thanks. I'll check them out.
ReplyDeleteOK, Carlos, I read your comments on Slumdog. Your blog still didn't answer my question. Why did you put it on your list. What "heavy themes affecting youth today" did you see in it? I really would like to hear your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteshouldn't you ask him that on his blog? this blog is supposed to be for sharing short ideas rather than discussion.
ReplyDeleteWe might need some guidance from you soon Brian... I get the feeling that we have put out about 50 ideas here and are starting to run out of the big "MO".
ReplyDeleteI can't remember -- did I mention above that I have 'adopted' a new rock-fusion band and I am following them around encouraging them and trying to help promote them? They are considering me like part of the family.
You're right Joseph. I'll copy my question over to Carlos' blog.
ReplyDeleteWhat do they fuse rock with or is "rock-fusion" it's own genre.
Re ideas - How did you connect with them?
this is amazing ... check out this article about sending twitter messages with one's mind:
ReplyDeletehttp://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/mindreadingdevicesendstwittermessagescan you imagine with we can interact with facebook and send and receive emails with just our mind?
Mind blowing!
let me try that again:
ReplyDelete"Mind-Reading Device Sends Twitter Messages" on yahoo news.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/mindreadingdevicesendstwittermessages
Hey, gents--I'm back from a week in NC. Just finished Christian Smith's book "Soul Searching", which looks at the "religious lives" of American teens (13-17). Highly, highly recommended--you don't have to read the whole book, which can get a bit dry (it's a sociological study), but chaps 5 and 6, along with the (two) conclusions are well worth reading.
ReplyDeleteAs Joseph has reminded us, our work as "skunks" is to think about our "industry" (the Kingdom of God?) in ways that will, down the line, possibly enable us to DO some "new things" (ala our God, who, in Christ, makes all things new.) Do we feel like we need a new/different "prompt" to get our creative minds going?
Brian is "anonymous".
ReplyDeleteI am familiar with some of Christian Smith's work on religion in Latin America (if it is the same guy) but did not realize he was doing stuff on teens in the USA. I will get the book. It would probably be good to read it alonside "UnChristian."
ReplyDeletegetting kinda quiet in here. Here is a new idea, one that I just tried out inadvertantly.
ReplyDelete-Decide to take a Latin Dancing class.
-Hang in there even though it hurts like hell and you feel stupid.
-Go to the end of the class party and practice and discern that your dance instructor is a woman of peace (Matt. 10).
-invite her, her boyfriend, and her closest friends to your birthday party (this Sat. night) and offer to pay her to give a 30 minute "dance lesson."
-sign up for a follow-up class (intro Salsa) with the intent of gathering the instructor, her boyfriend and their oikos around Jesus.
PS: its fun too!
Way cool!
ReplyDeleteSee intriguing new post...
ReplyDeleteFirst area: describe a way in which it could be demonstrated to a group of secular 20-somethings that following Jesus can be genuinely "spiritual" and not "religious."
ReplyDeleteThis obviously isn't a new idea, but I think one way of demonstrating Jesus is by our love for one another. What are 20-somethings hungry for?
When we say 20-somethings, what group of 20-somethings are we talking about?
ReplyDeleteMy wife and I invited our boys soccer team over for a cookout one Saturday back in July. The invitation was for the teens but the parents stayed as well. We did this cookout for three weekends and averaged about 50 people at our home. The fourth week we did a potluck with them so they could feel a part of the group (ownership)with a little bible message. We have been having a potluck with a food theme every Saturday since July. Our time together starts at 5:30-7:30 we eat and have fun. Then we have a small bible lesson that meets them where they are. Some of the teens come without their parents. But relationships are taking place with their parents.
ReplyDeleteThe group that we meet with consists of non-believers, non-church, Baptist, Mormon, Church of Christ and many more. And we have a blast!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Bret!
ReplyDeleteHey Bret, what you're doing is great! Doesn't even make a dent in the $10,000!
ReplyDeletesoccer potluck community ... I love it! I think hospitality is an overlooked very extremely important aspect of reaching unchurched people.
ReplyDeleteAnd you can connect one-on-one at games. Hanging out, and probably also mentoring while watching the kids play... Kingdom multi-tasking.
ReplyDeleteJoseph multi-tasks in the bar; he gets to drink, smoke and cuss while he hangs out and mentors...
:)
its great! I finally started a group that I can actually enjoy..... awesome.
ReplyDeleteWe had a great god-party last Tuesday. Lively animated conversation about spiritual power and gifts and agape love from 1 Cor. 12 and 13. I was up until 2 am ... several people got some issues reconciled in their relationships. Two guys (new converts) are like hungry little birds for spiritual truth.
The cool thing is, I am not doing anything ... except for letting the Spirit take initiative and Jesus to build HIS church.
I am finding that people have very few trustworthy friends. And many don't have any friends that they can trust on a kingdom level. They are starving for fellowship. Once we opened our home to those hungry for fellowship and focused for a time on them and our friendship, their level of commitment amazed me. Questions started coming and a willingness to be coached on issues of the Kingdom rose up because of trust.
ReplyDeleteI had no idea how hungry people are until we opened our home.
Awesome Bret!
ReplyDeleteEach week we have a food theme for our group. This week was Hawaiin night. It's neat how folks get into it. We had a guy who is painting the inside of our home come with his girlfriend just because of the theme.
ReplyDelete